Did you read the HOA agreement before buying here?
The people who complain loudest about the HOA are the ones who signed the agreement without reading it.
If you can afford to own a home, you can afford to pay somebody $25 a week for 8 months a year to cut your lawn. You can also spend $100 per year on fertilizer and apply it yourself. Personally, I'm glad I live in a neighborhood where people who refuse to maintain their property get fined.
The HOA rules are hardly draconian. Keep up your lawn: mow, trim, edge and weed. Keep your pets on your property. Don't leave your barking dogs outside for hours on end. Store your trash bin out of sight.
Are these common sense rules really so difficult to follow? Of course not. And if you do get hit with a questionable violation, just call the managment company and explain the extenuating circumstances and they'll waive the fine.
The people who complain loudest about the HOA are the ones who signed the agreement without reading it.
If you can afford to own a home, you can afford to pay somebody $25 a week for 8 months a year to cut your lawn.
LOL, that's pretty ignorant. You sound like the person who's handling spending around here... if you need/want something, just pay for it! Who cares what the cost is!
Aside from the fact that the HOA by-laws come in a 100+ page book, $100 a month is quite a bit of money for people on a budget. For me though, it's not about the money. It's the fact that it's MY lawn, and I'M the one who is going to mow it, dammit!
Most importantly, this whole "Well if you don't like the HOA you shouldn't have bought here" is just retarded. It's exactly the type of attitude that will keep buyers away from the neighborhood, and ultimately decrease land value.
On top of that, most people who buy houses don't get their dream house first time (especially in this price range). A lot of areas you look at you end up saying to yourself, "Well, that's not perfect, but we can fix it!"
Like "I don't like the color of that room, but we can paint it."
or "I don't like those countertops, but we can replace those" etc...
For some of us, that "fix it" may be aspects of the HOA or the management company.
Actually, the fact is the By-laws are 19 pages long, the Master Declaration CCR is 50 pages long, the Articles of incorporation are 5 pages and the Landscaping Guideline Memorandum is a single page (75 pages in all). I agree that $100 a month (plus the $100 of fertilizer) for lawn care could be quite an expense for someone with a tight budget, and just because your budget allows you to buy a house doesn't automatically mean you could also afford that expense, but the fact is lawn care doesn't have to be that expensive. Maybe Janet missed the point and assumed people were getting notices because thier lawns were not being cared for and assumed the reason was that people didn't have time to do it themselves.
But the fact is, when you purchase in a community with an HOA, you enter into a legally binding contract and agree to follow the rules set by the Association. The rules of this HOA don't appear to be any different than the last HOA that I belonged to, so I don't see them as unreasonable. I can tell that there are people here sensitive to the "Well if you don't like the HOA you shouldn't have bought here" scenario, but everyone should realize there are other options as well. Consider this.....
The U.S. laws, Texas State laws, and local city laws would no doubt be hundreds if not thousands of pages long. It is not likely that an immigrant moving here from out of country would read or realize all the laws before coming here. But once here, and they find out that (for example) they are not allowed to burn tires in thier back yard due to city or state codes or laws, then what are thier options? Sure, move somewhere where it is allowed (the old "shouldn't have bought here") is one option. Other options include continue to burn the tires and face the fines (the neighbors probably won't be too happy and the fines could be expensive), work to change the laws to allow tire burning (not an easy task, especially if the majority of people feel it is a law that protects their interest), or follow an acceptable method of disposing of the tires.
To me, whether you were aware of the rules when you moved here or not is irrelevant. It would be a kind gesture to give you only a warning for the first violation if you were unaware, but after that, you must decide on what option to pursue. You were right, it is your lawn and you are responsible for maintaining it whether you do it yourself or hire someone to do it for you. Personally, I am glad to live in a community with an HOA and I'm appreciative of the time and effort that the board and committee members put into it. I don't believe that the HOA increases my property value, I only believe it helps protect the value my property already has.
Wow, I didn't realize this thread had so many replies!
Well, we moved out of the neighborhood and back into our house in Cherrywood. Aside from the HOA issues, PCW is too far north for us, with my wife's school and son's day care being down south.
Some parting comments:
Our realtor did not advise us of the challenges of living in an HOA neighborhood. She made it sound like you join the HOA to get a key to the pool. I had no idea we'd be getting letters and stuff like that. So regardless of whose fault it is that we wound up in such a neighborhood, we did it, we regret it, and we've moved out. We found a great tenant and we'll keep it until the market recovers, then sell it.
Our neighborhood does not have an HOA, yet our property values continue to rise. We have a few "duds" mixed in here and there - places that should probably be condemned, old fixer uppers that haven't been maintained, etc. Although I may roll my eyes when I see someone who leaves their trash can on the street EVERY day, I don't want to live with such a tight leash as the HOA at PCW. To each his own, and I hope others will listen to their gut when they drive through the first time and see the "deed restrictions STRICTLY enforced" sign. I don't know how many people know what a deed restriction is, but at PCW, you'll get a crash course.
Our neighborhood does have an association, with quarterly meetings, zoning review meetings, city of austin liaison, etc. We have volunteers to hand deliver the quarterly newsletter (no postage!), and there is a nice website and email list/forum. So I don't know what an HOA really has to offer, except for those individuals that want really nice yards at every house and things like that. The property values being in the 150-250k range already exclude the type of people who are going to leave 6 cars parked in the front yard, so I don't believe that "lowered property values" are a real concern. Show me a study that compares HOA neighborhoods property values compared to non-HOA and I may consider it. But my guess is that crappy neighborhoods need all the help they can get, so enforcing rules is one way to prevent it from sliding into the projects. PCW is not in that category (certainly not the side I am an owner in, south of Braker E, near Pioneer Farms), so I'd rather pay for access to a pool and leave the rest out.
Our messageboard/email list does not allow anonymous posting, which encourages rants and tirades from angry people who would normally not behave like that. Certainly wouldn't allow the PRESIDENT of the association to post anonymously, then from an unverified email. That's a recipe for mistaken identity or worse. I strongly recommend you find someone with web skills to correct some of these issues. Take a look at Cherrywood.org for an example site.
Since this forum does not seem to have a way to be notified by email when someone replies to a post, I probably won't see any replies to this for a long time.
Just wanted to stop in and say kudos to the management for the $50 Lowe's card idea for best lawn. I it's not much, but to me it shows character that the HOA leadership actually took feedback ("too muck stick and not enough carrot") and ran with it.
WOW! Man am I glad that I found this web page. I was out there this weekend and put down 1k earnest money on a house on Buffalo Tundra. If this is how the HOA is, I back out. I assure you that there are 30 plus neighborhoods that have alot more to offer and lower HOA fees. Thank you.
Most importantly, this whole "Well if you don't like the HOA you shouldn't have bought here" is just retarded. It's exactly the type of attitude that will keep buyers away from the neighborhood, and ultimately decrease land value.
The original Anonymous post implied that the "quoted" attitude would keep buyers away and ultimately decrease land value. The prospective buyer stated that he was put off by the HOA (or more correctly, the perception of the HOA depicted in these posts), the amenities offered, and the fees. My interpretation of the events is that he decided not to buy based on the negative feedback about the HOA, not the "Well if you don't like the HOA you shouldn't have bought here" attitude. As for the land value, whether it increases or decreases from this point, you would need imperical data to demonstrate that the change in value was attributed to this single sale and not other factors such as market fluctuations or zoning changes. If the offered amenties and fees were a problem for him, then it's actually a great thing that he became aware before he bought, rather than feeling unfairly snared after buying. If everyone were fully aware of the amenities, cost, and restrictions before they bought, then we would likely have much less animosity over the issue. Best of luck to him and the Burjoes, but most of all, to all of us still here in PCW!
No, PCW HOA dues are not the lowest. My quick Google search turned up a range from about $250/year to $600/year for the Austin area, although to be honest, I failed to note the date of the postings so I don't know how current the data is. Still our dues fall below the median. I'm not sure what source Anonymous #36 used to determine there are 30+ neighborhoods with lower dues, but since he didn't identify his source, I have a feeling that comment was based more on perception than facts. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for lower HOA dues (I'd be even happier if they paid me to live here), but I don't understand the point of posting complaints here without offering up suggestions for improvements. Why not offer constructive criticism? If the HOA dues are an issue, why not suggest that we attempt to re-negotiate landscaping or Management company contracts now while the economy is down and we may have better leverage. Why not offer suggestions or ideas on where we can cut back from the budget? With the exception of the developer, the HOA board and committee members are all property owners and pay dues like everyone else, so I'm sure they would welcome constructive ideas.
The people who complain loudest about the HOA are the ones who signed the agreement without reading it.
If you can afford to own a home, you can afford to pay somebody $25 a week for 8 months a year to cut your lawn. You can also spend $100 per year on fertilizer and apply it yourself. Personally, I'm glad I live in a neighborhood where people who refuse to maintain their property get fined.
The HOA rules are hardly draconian. Keep up your lawn: mow, trim, edge and weed. Keep your pets on your property. Don't leave your barking dogs outside for hours on end. Store your trash bin out of sight.
Are these common sense rules really so difficult to follow? Of course not. And if you do get hit with a questionable violation, just call the managment company and explain the extenuating circumstances and they'll waive the fine.
The people who complain loudest about the HOA are the ones who signed the agreement without reading it.
If you can afford to own a home, you can afford to pay somebody $25 a week for 8 months a year to cut your lawn.
LOL, that's pretty ignorant. You sound like the person who's handling spending around here... if you need/want something, just pay for it! Who cares what the cost is!
Aside from the fact that the HOA by-laws come in a 100+ page book, $100 a month is quite a bit of money for people on a budget. For me though, it's not about the money. It's the fact that it's MY lawn, and I'M the one who is going to mow it, dammit!
Most importantly, this whole "Well if you don't like the HOA you shouldn't have bought here" is just retarded. It's exactly the type of attitude that will keep buyers away from the neighborhood, and ultimately decrease land value.
On top of that, most people who buy houses don't get their dream house first time (especially in this price range). A lot of areas you look at you end up saying to yourself, "Well, that's not perfect, but we can fix it!"
Like "I don't like the color of that room, but we can paint it."
or "I don't like those countertops, but we can replace those" etc...
For some of us, that "fix it" may be aspects of the HOA or the management company.
Actually, the fact is the By-laws are 19 pages long, the Master Declaration CCR is 50 pages long, the Articles of incorporation are 5 pages and the Landscaping Guideline Memorandum is a single page (75 pages in all). I agree that $100 a month (plus the $100 of fertilizer) for lawn care could be quite an expense for someone with a tight budget, and just because your budget allows you to buy a house doesn't automatically mean you could also afford that expense, but the fact is lawn care doesn't have to be that expensive. Maybe Janet missed the point and assumed people were getting notices because thier lawns were not being cared for and assumed the reason was that people didn't have time to do it themselves.
But the fact is, when you purchase in a community with an HOA, you enter into a legally binding contract and agree to follow the rules set by the Association. The rules of this HOA don't appear to be any different than the last HOA that I belonged to, so I don't see them as unreasonable. I can tell that there are people here sensitive to the "Well if you don't like the HOA you shouldn't have bought here" scenario, but everyone should realize there are other options as well. Consider this.....
The U.S. laws, Texas State laws, and local city laws would no doubt be hundreds if not thousands of pages long. It is not likely that an immigrant moving here from out of country would read or realize all the laws before coming here. But once here, and they find out that (for example) they are not allowed to burn tires in thier back yard due to city or state codes or laws, then what are thier options? Sure, move somewhere where it is allowed (the old "shouldn't have bought here") is one option. Other options include continue to burn the tires and face the fines (the neighbors probably won't be too happy and the fines could be expensive), work to change the laws to allow tire burning (not an easy task, especially if the majority of people feel it is a law that protects their interest), or follow an acceptable method of disposing of the tires.
To me, whether you were aware of the rules when you moved here or not is irrelevant. It would be a kind gesture to give you only a warning for the first violation if you were unaware, but after that, you must decide on what option to pursue. You were right, it is your lawn and you are responsible for maintaining it whether you do it yourself or hire someone to do it for you. Personally, I am glad to live in a community with an HOA and I'm appreciative of the time and effort that the board and committee members put into it. I don't believe that the HOA increases my property value, I only believe it helps protect the value my property already has.
Wow, I didn't realize this thread had so many replies!
Well, we moved out of the neighborhood and back into our house in Cherrywood. Aside from the HOA issues, PCW is too far north for us, with my wife's school and son's day care being down south.
Some parting comments:
Our realtor did not advise us of the challenges of living in an HOA neighborhood. She made it sound like you join the HOA to get a key to the pool. I had no idea we'd be getting letters and stuff like that. So regardless of whose fault it is that we wound up in such a neighborhood, we did it, we regret it, and we've moved out. We found a great tenant and we'll keep it until the market recovers, then sell it.
Our neighborhood does not have an HOA, yet our property values continue to rise. We have a few "duds" mixed in here and there - places that should probably be condemned, old fixer uppers that haven't been maintained, etc. Although I may roll my eyes when I see someone who leaves their trash can on the street EVERY day, I don't want to live with such a tight leash as the HOA at PCW. To each his own, and I hope others will listen to their gut when they drive through the first time and see the "deed restrictions STRICTLY enforced" sign. I don't know how many people know what a deed restriction is, but at PCW, you'll get a crash course.
Our neighborhood does have an association, with quarterly meetings, zoning review meetings, city of austin liaison, etc. We have volunteers to hand deliver the quarterly newsletter (no postage!), and there is a nice website and email list/forum. So I don't know what an HOA really has to offer, except for those individuals that want really nice yards at every house and things like that. The property values being in the 150-250k range already exclude the type of people who are going to leave 6 cars parked in the front yard, so I don't believe that "lowered property values" are a real concern. Show me a study that compares HOA neighborhoods property values compared to non-HOA and I may consider it. But my guess is that crappy neighborhoods need all the help they can get, so enforcing rules is one way to prevent it from sliding into the projects. PCW is not in that category (certainly not the side I am an owner in, south of Braker E, near Pioneer Farms), so I'd rather pay for access to a pool and leave the rest out.
Our messageboard/email list does not allow anonymous posting, which encourages rants and tirades from angry people who would normally not behave like that. Certainly wouldn't allow the PRESIDENT of the association to post anonymously, then from an unverified email. That's a recipe for mistaken identity or worse. I strongly recommend you find someone with web skills to correct some of these issues. Take a look at Cherrywood.org for an example site.
Since this forum does not seem to have a way to be notified by email when someone replies to a post, I probably won't see any replies to this for a long time.
Good luck to you all!
Jason Burroughs
Just wanted to stop in and say kudos to the management for the $50 Lowe's card idea for best lawn. I it's not much, but to me it shows character that the HOA leadership actually took feedback ("too muck stick and not enough carrot") and ran with it.
WOW! Man am I glad that I found this web page. I was out there this weekend and put down 1k earnest money on a house on Buffalo Tundra. If this is how the HOA is, I back out. I assure you that there are 30 plus neighborhoods that have alot more to offer and lower HOA fees. Thank you.
Most importantly, this whole "Well if you don't like the HOA you shouldn't have bought here" is just retarded. It's exactly the type of attitude that will keep buyers away from the neighborhood, and ultimately decrease land value.
I think that point was just proven.
The original Anonymous post implied that the "quoted" attitude would keep buyers away and ultimately decrease land value. The prospective buyer stated that he was put off by the HOA (or more correctly, the perception of the HOA depicted in these posts), the amenities offered, and the fees. My interpretation of the events is that he decided not to buy based on the negative feedback about the HOA, not the "Well if you don't like the HOA you shouldn't have bought here" attitude. As for the land value, whether it increases or decreases from this point, you would need imperical data to demonstrate that the change in value was attributed to this single sale and not other factors such as market fluctuations or zoning changes. If the offered amenties and fees were a problem for him, then it's actually a great thing that he became aware before he bought, rather than feeling unfairly snared after buying. If everyone were fully aware of the amenities, cost, and restrictions before they bought, then we would likely have much less animosity over the issue. Best of luck to him and the Burjoes, but most of all, to all of us still here in PCW!
how disappointing. i've been living here five years and have the exact same things to say. and pcw hoa dues are NOT the lowest. do some homework.
No, PCW HOA dues are not the lowest. My quick Google search turned up a range from about $250/year to $600/year for the Austin area, although to be honest, I failed to note the date of the postings so I don't know how current the data is. Still our dues fall below the median. I'm not sure what source Anonymous #36 used to determine there are 30+ neighborhoods with lower dues, but since he didn't identify his source, I have a feeling that comment was based more on perception than facts. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for lower HOA dues (I'd be even happier if they paid me to live here), but I don't understand the point of posting complaints here without offering up suggestions for improvements. Why not offer constructive criticism? If the HOA dues are an issue, why not suggest that we attempt to re-negotiate landscaping or Management company contracts now while the economy is down and we may have better leverage. Why not offer suggestions or ideas on where we can cut back from the budget? With the exception of the developer, the HOA board and committee members are all property owners and pay dues like everyone else, so I'm sure they would welcome constructive ideas.
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